[ReDesign] Suzanne (Monkey)

[krabNchous]

...which form do you all prefer to use?

I like "1. My From" it is much smoother and looks more alive then others. 
And if it was about me  I would prefer it even more cartoony, you know, like to go even farther than in your examples, like "-1" or "-2".

[Alayan]

Well ... how I understand everyone here is thinking that I uploading the final version for this kart every time I update, my bad ... I didn't explained properly what I have in mind when I posted kart here (or I didn't right understanded rules of this server), so anyway I will explain what I have in my mind when I started posting here:

• First of all, I didn't posting the final version of the kart, I'm making kart on fast hand, you know, like sketching the image, but in 3D, my kart it's like a 3D sketch (concept art) but you can ride on it, I just wanted to show that I having in my mind right now, and when everyone will say that it's good idea - I want to remodel everything in good quality, and then post final version.
  

Like Sven said, it's perfectly fine and even encouraged to post work-in-progress versions. It helps to get feedback early before investing too much time in perfecting something that would be better done in a different way. It's also helpful to tell us how close to completion you think the kart is and what further changes you are thinking about.

But of course the feedback you receive will be based on what is seen in the latest version you shared, and we are generally going to assume the final version will be a refinement of those already shown rather than some kind of total overhaul. If you want to gather opinions on totally different kart designs for the same character, it's perhaps better to post the two or three designs at the same time for people to compare.

So ... at first I was worked only with Suzanne, but right now I'm working with 3 karts at the same time, and I redesigning Suzanne's kart again, because I have even better idea, I noticed that some of the characters have similar themes, here, I will explain:

• Suzanne (I's Jungle) - I'm trying to create kart from the wood and vines, it's like she made her kart from jungle stuff.
  
• Amanda (Bamboo Forest) - I have idea to make a kart from bamboo.
  
• Wilber (Forest), for me Wilber look like a wolf or something like that, so that's why I thinking about forest, so that's why want to make a kart base from wood, and then put paint tube on top of wooden base.
  

For my part, I'm not convinced by the idea of making all these karts wood-themed. One why not, but wood is a gimmicky material for a kart so it should rather be an exception (much like GNU's flying carpet is an exception), and the case for the link between Wilber and wood is weak. Also, bamboo is Panda food, making a kart out of the driver's food would be peculiar.

By the way everyone, since I didn't make final version yet, I need everyone's opinion: how I see not everyone like my version on Suzanne, so I made a transformation steps of a head between my form and blender's form, so ... which form do you all prefer to use?

I generally prefer your form, although I think the shape of the face above the eyes could be more similar to that of Transform 2, as it makes Suzanne more recognizable as Suzanne without hurting aesthetics the way that using Blender's form would. Also in general I would prefer several sections to be higher-poly, it's not nice to notice edges and vertices.

By the way @Christopher, you are more than welcome to leave your feedback, that's the point of having a public thread, but I didn't like that some of your previous messages seemed to be giving outright instructions about subjective elements. That's maybe not how you intended it, but that's how it came across for me. @Sven will decide when he thinks a kart should be included in the main game so he may give instructions to help a kart project achieve this goal, but for normal users advice and suggestions are more appropriate than instructions. 

[Mish7913]

it's perhaps better to post the two or three designs at the same time for people to compare.

Huh ... How I didn't think of that .. thank you for the idea.  

For my part, I'm not convinced by the idea of making all these karts wood-themed.

Okay, I will think about it, I didn't finished concept art for Wilber and Amanda, so ... maybe I will re-think some stuff with this karts.

[Mish7913]

Okay everyone, I made my jungle-themed (concept art).

Here is a GIFs of my previous idea and jungle-themed idea:
 

In jungle-themed kart I didn't make animations, because it's taking a time, and I already made a lot of unnecessary actions (it's just sometimes I have a lots of ideas in my mind and I just got confused what to choose, what to show you all, and sometimes I have problems to describe what I have in my mind), so anyway ... you need to choose one of the versions (don't mind low-polyness, in final version everything will be smooth) and tell me which version do you want me to make a final version?

DOWNLOAD:

• suzanne_jungle_exported.zip (without animations, and pbr effects)
  

[Alayan]

For my part, overall I prefer the previous idea over the jungle-themed one:
- Because it's more open, it's easier to see Suzanne's animation than when Suzanne is largely surrounded by the wood
- Suzanne's wooden kart looks too much like some kind of toy kart built by kids for my taste. In some ways it's a fun design, but that feels more like addon territory than something that should be in the main game where stylistic consistency matters more.

[Mish7913]

Okay, I will make a previous idea to final version then.

[Sven]

I generally prefer your form, although I think the shape of the face above the eyes could be more similar to that of Transform 2, as it makes Suzanne more recognizable as Suzanne without hurting aesthetics the way that using Blender's form would. Also in general I would prefer several sections to be higher-poly, it's not nice to notice edges and vertices.

I agree with this.

For my part, overall I prefer the previous idea over the jungle-themed one:
- Because it's more open, it's easier to see Suzanne's animation than when Suzanne is largely surrounded by the wood
- Suzanne's wooden kart looks too much like some kind of toy kart built by kids for my taste. In some ways it's a fun design, but that feels more like addon territory than something that should be in the main game where stylistic consistency matters more.

I also agree with that.
The idea to build unique fitting karts for the characters is cool, but it shouldn't be forced.

[Mish7913]

Okay

[NickerAban]

I just noticed this new character style and the new kart that I loved, but I understand that others want something different, a kart change apart from the original one.

[Aleksej33]

What about a kart with a space theme?

[Mish7913]

Phew ... I finished (it took me longer than i thought). 

So ... I uploaded the final version, and I go working with next kart.
If textures not quite right, I also uploaded source files, so Sven can fix it by his taste.

Have a nice ride!  

JUMP TO DOWNLOAD PAGE

[Sven]

I love the lose animation it's sooo cool!

The animations overall are really really good, great work!

There is just a slight issue with the left/right animation you can see that the ears and the eyelids make a weird wiggle movement.
It's best visible when going back and forth btween left and right.

There will be a set of new animations for STK Evolution, most of them are already implemented in the latest version of the 2.0 branch but besides one test kart none of the karts has those animations yet.
Alongside the new animations we've also renamed some of the existing markers to improve the wording and avoid confusion for artists.

It would be super cool if you would be willing to add those new animations to your kart as well

The complete new animation list (with new naming) will be:

• left
  
• straight
  
• right
  
• backpedal-left
  
• backpedal (could maybe get removed since right now it's always just the straight pose)
  
• backpedal-right
  
• selection-start (this is added so every character can have more of a special entry that would look strange if always looped)
  
• selection-loop-start
  
• selection-loop-end
  
• false-accel-start (this animation is played to indicate better when the player made a false start)
  
• false-accel-end
  
• winning-start
  
• winning-loop-start
  
• winning-loop-end
  
• winning-to-straight (might be removed if possible)
  
• neutral-start (the neutral animations are played when a kart gets a middle spot in a race)
  
• neutral-loop-start
  
• neutral-loop-end
  
• losing-start
  
• losing-loop-start
  
• losing-loop-end
  
• losing-to-straight (might be removed if possible)
  
• jump-start
  
• jump-loop-start
  
• jump-loop-end
  
• happy-start (this animation is played when the player hits another kart)
  
• happy-end
  
• hit-start (this animation is played when the player gets hit)
  
• hit-end
  
• bump-front (the bump animations are single poses that are transitioned too when the kart gets bumped or bumps another kart. Not implemented yet)
  
• bump-left
  
• bump-right
  
• bump-back
  
• podium-start (the podium animations are played after a grand prix)
  
• podium-loop-start
  
• podium-loop-end
  
  

Make sure to update the exporter scripts to the newest version, when exporting those new animations.
also make sure to set the "kart Format Version" to 4 and "Export Version" to 4 as well.

I think the texturing could still be slightly improved but I will take a look at that.


Overall this turned out really good imo epsecially the animations are a highlight

[Mish7913]

Oh YES, I will be happy to animate NEW animations.
I'm going to start animate it right now! 

[WiiGADD]

Excited to see where this goes!

[Alayan]

I tested this latest version of Suzanne. It is very good, and the lose animation is indeed fantastic!

Like @Sven said, it would be great if you could implement the new animations too. Let us know if you need more context about them, or help to build the Evolution branch from source (as it's nice to be able to test in-game too for the animations that have been implemented)

There are a few things I think could be better though beyond the textures:
- I think Suzanne's default face look too sad. It would be expected to be somewhere between neutral and slightly happy, but right now, Suzanne looks depressed.
- This also translates in Suzanne's face in the winning animation not looking quite right.
- I previously pointed out that the headlights are bright even when the track is a day-track. That has been fixed, except now the headlights are not bright when the track is a night-track! (To be clear, the light beam is still active, but if you look backwards to see the kart from the front, the headlights won't be bright). Since Tux's kart work as expected, I assume it must be possible to set the kart to work properly in both day-tracks and night-tracks.

Otherwise, all the things I've pointed out previously seem to have been improved and the various small changes I've noticed definitely helped to make the kart better. 

I also wonder if perhaps you'd be interested in improving the monkey models that are serving as spectators in Cocoa Temple an in a few other places, since they are cousins of sort of Suzanne. Although Suzanne's face should be somewhat unique compared to the generic monkeys, I'd guess there are a lot of common elements that could be improved in the models, and perhaps you'd have some fun with the animations too.

[dylanf319]

- I think Suzanne's default face look too sad. It would be expected to be somewhere between neutral and slightly happy, but right now, Suzanne looks depressed.

Also to Tux

[Tuxito3000]

- I think Suzanne's default face look too sad. It would be expected to be somewhere between neutral and slightly happy, but right now, Suzanne looks depressed.

Also to Tux

Yes, Tux has a flaw: the gray part of his eyes; it makes him look tired. It can be blurred or removed, and he looks much better.

[WiiGADD]

I tested this latest version of Suzanne. It is very good, and the lose animation is indeed fantastic!

Like @Sven said, it would be great if you could implement the new animations too. Let us know if you need more context about them, or help to build the Evolution branch from source (as it's nice to be able to test in-game too for the animations that have been implemented)

There are a few things I think could be better though beyond the textures:
- I think Suzanne's default face look too sad. It would be expected to be somewhere between neutral and slightly happy, but right now, Suzanne looks depressed.
- This also translates in Suzanne's face in the winning animation not looking quite right.
- I previously pointed out that the headlights are bright even when the track is a day-track. That has been fixed, except now the headlights are not bright when the track is a night-track! (To be clear, the light beam is still active, but if you look backwards to see the kart from the front, the headlights won't be bright). Since Tux's kart work as expected, I assume it must be possible to set the kart to work properly in both day-tracks and night-tracks.

Otherwise, all the things I've pointed out previously seem to have been improved and the various small changes I've noticed definitely helped to make the kart better. 

I also wonder if perhaps you'd be interested in improving the monkey models that are serving as spectators in Cocoa Temple an in a few other places, since they are cousins of sort of Suzanne. Although Suzanne's face should be somewhat unique compared to the generic monkeys, I'd guess there are a lot of common elements that could be improved in the models, and perhaps you'd have some fun with the animations too.

I have an idea, make Suzanne look different, and make the other monkeys look more like the default blender monkey, but with the Redesign!

[Mish7913]

... I think Suzanne's default face look too sad. ...

Hmm ... default face ... here, I made "smile" emotion, what do you think? 
And just for fun I made "got excited" emothion too (who knows maybe you like it better then just smile).

... now the headlights are not bright when the track is a night-track! ...

Okay, I will fix it, when I found out how to do it (because I put pbr glow map on headlights too (like the previous time), but this time it's not working somehow).

I also wonder if perhaps you'd be interested in improving the monkey models that are serving as spectators in Cocoa Temple an in a few other places, since they are cousins of sort of Suzanne.

That's interesting idea, I will think about it. 

[Aleksej33]

I think the the smile version looks really great, while the excited version is a bit too agressive.