What characters would likely come back.

[Christopher]

Hello,

I wanted to know which characters will be returning to STK and which new ones will be added.

We already know that Dashie is coming back, which is great. I was wondering if Beastie, Elephant, and Gooey will definitely be returning. They are all mascots of free, open-source programs and would be good to see them back.

Out of these new characters, which ones are guaranteed to be in the game:

• Katie (mascot of the KDE Women's Project)
  
• Kate (mascot of KDE Advanced Text Editor)
  
• Libbie (unofficial mascot of LibreOffice)
  
• Kandalf (alternative mascot of KDE)
  
• Geeko (mascot of openSUSE)
  
• Rocky Raccoon (mascot of Minix 3)
  
• Kit the Firefox (mascot of Mozilla Firefox)
  
• Kitty (mascot of AROS)
  
• Blinky (mascot of FreeDOS)
  
• Xenia (alternative mascot of Linux)
  
• Go Gopher (mascot of Go)
  
• Glenda, the Plan 9 Bunny (mascot of Plan 9 from Bell Labs)
  
• Bugdroid / The Bot (mascot of Android – since STK is on Android, it would be greate to include him!)
  

It would be really great to have all the alternative mascots from programs like KDE and Linux.

Also, is Mr. Iceblock still going to return to the game? He wouldn't seem to match.

Thank you.

[Gusta]

I would like Bugdroid and Katie in the game.

Xenia is a good idea also for me (as a furry btw hehehe)

[Christopher]

I forgot to include Freedo, Tux's cousin in a way, and the mascot of Linux-Libre, which is fully free and open-source, he could also be added to STK Evolution.

[Alayan]

At this stage, we do not have a definitive list of which characters will get an official kart for STK Evolution.

Two important points however:

• We do not aim to include every open-source mascot in existence. Beyond cases like Firefox's Kit which do not meet licensing requirements (Beastie got removed because Debian liked to mutilate our releases to remove him because it isn't DFSG-compliant, but we at least had the right to include it in STK, with Kit, to the best of my knowledge, we don't), there are many reasons why a given mascot might not be picked up. Addons exist and are always an option for characters not part of the standard set.
  
• We do not forbid ourselves from having some characters that aren't open-source mascots. There is the obvious case of Nolok, which comes from SuperTux, but it doesn't have to be restricted to Nolok.
  

[Christopher]

At this stage, we do not have a definitive list of which characters will get an official kart for STK Evolution.

Two important points however:

• We do not aim to include every open-source mascot in existence. Beyond cases like Firefox's Kit which do not meet licensing requirements (Beastie got removed because Debian liked to mutilate our releases to remove him because it isn't DFSG-compliant, but we at least had the right to include it in STK, with Kit, to the best of my knowledge, we don't), there are many reasons why a given mascot might not be picked up. Addons exist and are always an option for characters not part of the standard set.
  
• We do not forbid ourselves from having some characters that aren't open-source mascots. There is the obvious case of Nolok, which comes from SuperTux, but it doesn't have to be restricted to Nolok.
  

So, is Beastie 100% not going to return? He is one of the most important characters that was ever in the game, right alongside Tux and Gnu. Also, what about Elephpant and Gooey, are they going to come back? And as for the new characters, are at least Katie, Libbie, and Freedo going to be added? It'll be best to have over 20 characters in the game.

[Tuxito3000]

At this stage, we do not have a definitive list of which characters will get an official kart for STK Evolution.

Two important points however:

• We do not aim to include every open-source mascot in existence. Beyond cases like Firefox's Kit which do not meet licensing requirements (Beastie got removed because Debian liked to mutilate our releases to remove him because it isn't DFSG-compliant, but we at least had the right to include it in STK, with Kit, to the best of my knowledge, we don't), there are many reasons why a given mascot might not be picked up. Addons exist and are always an option for characters not part of the standard set.
  
• We do not forbid ourselves from having some characters that aren't open-source mascots. There is the obvious case of Nolok, which comes from SuperTux, but it doesn't have to be restricted to Nolok.
  

I think your point about the licenses is valid, but with all due respect having more than 20 characters is necessary, because almost all modern racing games have that.

[Alayan]

So, is Beastie 100% not going to return? He is one of the most important characters that was ever in the game, right alongside Tux and Gnu. Also, what about Elephpant and Gooey, are they going to come back? And as for the new characters, are at least Katie, Libbie, and Freedo going to be added? It'll be best to have over 20 characters in the game.

Personally, I wasn't happy when Beastie got removed. But we also don't want to have Debian distribute what appears to be some STK version, while actually having changed what's inside.

Evolution will have more karts than 1.5, but I won't confirm any character that hasn't been already announced, and I don't know myself the final list.

I think your point about the licenses is valid, but with all due respect having more than 20 characters is necessary, because almost all modern racing games have that.

The only reason having 20 characters or more in standard is necessary is because it is pretty silly to have the game allow racing with 20 karts, while not having enough standard karts to do it without resorting to duplicate karts.

There are other reasons why having more characters is nice. But it's all in "nice-to-have" territory, not "necessary". Many other games doing something doesn't make it necessary. Many games have DRM. Many games have lootboxes.

Having some huge number of vehicles is a way to pump up marketing numbers for big game studios that can easily absorb the overhead, but for a project like SuperTuxKart each extra official kart means additional work that could have instead gone to improve other visual elements (including potentially improving the quality of other karts), it means an expectation to keep updating that kart if new features are added (animations, various graphical features, custom sounds and voicelines...)

Diminishing returns are also a thing. The work for each extra kart is the same, but the benefits get smaller: existing options are likely to already be satisfying, the selection screen gets crowded, and player have to learn the kart's characteristics.

Extra high-quality karts are desirable, but we are not chasing some marketing number. It's better to focus on quality and slowly expand the number later than try to reach a big number and have most of the karts neglected by players.

[Christopher]

So, is Beastie 100% not going to return? He is one of the most important characters that was ever in the game, right alongside Tux and Gnu. Also, what about Elephpant and Gooey, are they going to come back? And as for the new characters, are at least Katie, Libbie, and Freedo going to be added? It'll be best to have over 20 characters in the game.

Personally, I wasn't happy when Beastie got removed. But we also don't want to have Debian distribute what appears to be some STK version, while actually having changed what's inside.

Evolution will have more karts than 1.5, but I won't confirm any character that hasn't been already announced, and I don't know myself the final list.

I think your point about the licenses is valid, but with all due respect having more than 20 characters is necessary, because almost all modern racing games have that.

The only reason having 20 characters or more in standard is necessary is because it is pretty silly to have the game allow racing with 20 karts, while not having enough standard karts to do it without resorting to duplicate karts.

There are other reasons why having more characters is nice. But it's all in "nice-to-have" territory, not "necessary". Many other games doing something doesn't make it necessary. Many games have DRM. Many games have lootboxes.

Having some huge number of vehicles is a way to pump up marketing numbers for big game studios that can easily absorb the overhead, but for a project like SuperTuxKart each extra official kart means additional work that could have instead gone to improve other visual elements (including potentially improving the quality of other karts), it means an expectation to keep updating that kart if new features are added (animations, various graphical features, custom sounds and voicelines...)

Diminishing returns are also a thing. The work for each extra kart is the same, but the benefits get smaller: existing options are likely to already be satisfying, the selection screen gets crowded, and player have to learn the kart's characteristics.

Extra high-quality karts are desirable, but we are not chasing some marketing number. It's better to focus on quality and slowly expand the number later than try to reach a big number and have most of the karts neglected by players.

Are there licensing issues with Elephpant, the mascot of PHP, and the Android Bot, and would you ever consider adding Katie, Libbie, and Kate?

[Tuxito3000]

So, is Beastie 100% not going to return? He is one of the most important characters that was ever in the game, right alongside Tux and Gnu. Also, what about Elephpant and Gooey, are they going to come back? And as for the new characters, are at least Katie, Libbie, and Freedo going to be added? It'll be best to have over 20 characters in the game.

Personally, I wasn't happy when Beastie got removed. But we also don't want to have Debian distribute what appears to be some STK version, while actually having changed what's inside.

Evolution will have more karts than 1.5, but I won't confirm any character that hasn't been already announced, and I don't know myself the final list.

I think your point about the licenses is valid, but with all due respect having more than 20 characters is necessary, because almost all modern racing games have that.

The only reason having 20 characters or more in standard is necessary is because it is pretty silly to have the game allow racing with 20 karts, while not having enough standard karts to do it without resorting to duplicate karts.

There are other reasons why having more characters is nice. But it's all in "nice-to-have" territory, not "necessary". Many other games doing something doesn't make it necessary. Many games have DRM. Many games have lootboxes.

Having some huge number of vehicles is a way to pump up marketing numbers for big game studios that can easily absorb the overhead, but for a project like SuperTuxKart each extra official kart means additional work that could have instead gone to improve other visual elements (including potentially improving the quality of other karts), it means an expectation to keep updating that kart if new features are added (animations, various graphical features, custom sounds and voicelines...)

Diminishing returns are also a thing. The work for each extra kart is the same, but the benefits get smaller: existing options are likely to already be satisfying, the selection screen gets crowded, and player have to learn the kart's characteristics.

Extra high-quality karts are desirable, but we are not chasing some marketing number. It's better to focus on quality and slowly expand the number later than try to reach a big number and have most of the karts neglected by players.

In fact, it’s not about hitting a quota;
"pretty silly" I don't think a large roster necessarily means every single character has to compete in the same race,
and I’m not asking for 500 characters.

[Christopher]

So, is Beastie 100% not going to return? He is one of the most important characters that was ever in the game, right alongside Tux and Gnu. Also, what about Elephpant and Gooey, are they going to come back? And as for the new characters, are at least Katie, Libbie, and Freedo going to be added? It'll be best to have over 20 characters in the game.

Personally, I wasn't happy when Beastie got removed. But we also don't want to have Debian distribute what appears to be some STK version, while actually having changed what's inside.

Evolution will have more karts than 1.5, but I won't confirm any character that hasn't been already announced, and I don't know myself the final list.

I think your point about the licenses is valid, but with all due respect having more than 20 characters is necessary, because almost all modern racing games have that.

The only reason having 20 characters or more in standard is necessary is because it is pretty silly to have the game allow racing with 20 karts, while not having enough standard karts to do it without resorting to duplicate karts.

There are other reasons why having more characters is nice. But it's all in "nice-to-have" territory, not "necessary". Many other games doing something doesn't make it necessary. Many games have DRM. Many games have lootboxes.

Having some huge number of vehicles is a way to pump up marketing numbers for big game studios that can easily absorb the overhead, but for a project like SuperTuxKart each extra official kart means additional work that could have instead gone to improve other visual elements (including potentially improving the quality of other karts), it means an expectation to keep updating that kart if new features are added (animations, various graphical features, custom sounds and voicelines...)

Diminishing returns are also a thing. The work for each extra kart is the same, but the benefits get smaller: existing options are likely to already be satisfying, the selection screen gets crowded, and player have to learn the kart's characteristics.

Extra high-quality karts are desirable, but we are not chasing some marketing number. It's better to focus on quality and slowly expand the number later than try to reach a big number and have most of the karts neglected by players.

Did Debian even have the right to remove Beastie. It isn't there game and you have all the rights to add him back.

[Alayan]

In fact, it’s not about hitting a quota;
"pretty silly" I don't think a large roster necessarily means every single character has to compete in the same race,
and I’m not asking for 500 characters.

The silly quote was specifically about STK not having enough standard karts in 1.x and needing to have 2 Tux, or 2 Xue, etc. to have enough racers when playing with the maximum number of karts. So you got the meaning the wrong way around!

Note also that I didn't say anywhere there won't be more karts for Evolution. I was simply explaining why one shouldn't expect STK to include any and all open-source mascots.

Did Debian even have the right to remove Beastie. It isn't there game and you have all the rights to add him back.

SuperTuxKart is free and open-source. Modifying the game and distributing the modified game is expressly allowed as long as the modified source code is provided.

Now, whether doing the changes silently (for the end-user) and while keeping all the official branding is just fine, that's another question. When changes are just meant to allow the game to run properly (such as the small patches some BSD distros apply to compile SuperTuxKart) that's great. When those changes substantially modify the player's experience, it's a problem.

Long ago, Debian really wanted to compile STK to work with a system Irrlicht, which had lower defaults for various values than STK's bundled Irrlicht, leading to a badly broken game for their users, who ended up thinking that SuperTuxKart was the problem...

[Sam]

We had a patreon post recently about the story mode, if you are curious you can read about it: https://members.supertuxkart.net/posts/o...-170790128

[Christopher]

We had a patreon post recently about the story mode, if you are curious you can read about it: https://members.supertuxkart.net/posts/o...-170790128

Thank you for showing me this, I didn't know there was going to be a spinoff game titled SuperTuxZero.

[Tuxito3000]

Although I don't want to complain,

we should have Penny in STK,

because we already have Nolok and Tux.